Discussioni su "quest'UOMO": Alan Wilder.

[synth7]

è nei video di 013, epk Ultra.
accomodati.

thanks!

[violator88]

....Walking in my Shoes fa pena ed è lontanissima parente del capolavoro targato Gore-Wilder-Flood. Stessa identica cosa per I Feel You ed Enjoy the Silence...

dire che fanno pena mi sembra molto esagerato e sgradevole nei confronti del lavoro di martin...
ricordati che sono pur sempre delle demo..mica quando martin le ha fatte aveva in mente di non "sistemarle" ,o meglio, di farle sistemare..sotto il profilo dei dettagli del suono intendo..perchè l'idea di base è uguale..sia nelle demo che nelle versioni finali...poi senza dubbio alan dava un tocco in piu col suo lavoro...

[synth7]

dire che fanno pena mi sembra molto esagerato e sgradevole nei confronti del lavoro di martin...
ricordati che sono pur sempre delle demo..mica quando martin le ha fatte aveva in mente di non "sistemarle" ,o meglio, di farle sistemare..sotto il profilo dei dettagli del suono intendo..perchè l'idea di base è uguale..sia nelle demo che nelle versioni finali...poi senza dubbio alan dava un tocco in piu col suo lavoro...

Vabbè dai delle canzoni... normali e prescindibili.. bu non saprei come chiamarle. Il termine "Pena" non è altro che la sintesi del divario che c'è tra la versione finale di WIMS e la sua demo... cioè nel senso che confronto alla canzone finale quella me fa pena và. Comunque chi ha arrangiato le 3 canzoni imputate (ma non sono le uniche... tra l'altro mi viene in mente proprio ora anche To Have and To Hold e di quanto sia nettamente superiore la versione finale alla versione demo) direi che non gli ha dato solamente un "semplice tocco";-)
Ribadisco la mia grande stima verso il genietto dai riccioli d'oro e ripeto che non poche demo rispecchiano perfettamente nel contenuto la versione finale (ma altrettante altre non lo rispecchiano... ho solo detto questo)

Passo e chiudo.

[the lamp light]

Fatto sta che, per quanto sia bella e lucente e violatoreggiante la versione demo, la Walking In My Shoes che ho amato per anni è quella finita su Songs.

Last but not least, così come il terzo CD del lussureggiante Box Set ha fatto luce sulle immense capacità creativo-compositive di Martin Gore (che a me comunque sempre chiare furono), altri documenti recenti di casa Mute ci mostrano quanto sia stato importante, nel corso di più di due decenni di DM, un sano lavoro in studio.

Al di là di Charlie.

[synth7]

Tornando al discorso Ematech/Ultra:

Dall'EPK di ULTRA:

Fletch: "Alan ha dato prova di se stesso, ha fatto grandi cose tipo lasciarci degli spunti per poter fare un nuovo disco da soli"

Ecco parlavo esattamente di questa frase che non ricordavo e che poco fa ho sintetizzato sostenendo che Fletch avesse detto che in certo qual modo si sono "ispirati" ad Alan Wilder.

Dai Freestate... direi che alla fine ci ho preso... tra l'altro ispirati sta in mezzo a 2 popò di virgolette!

Comunque che non mi si fraintenda perchè non penso minimamente che ULTRA sia figlio illegittimo di Wilder............ il discorso è nettamente diverso!

[neuronifolli]

Fatto sta che, per quanto sia bella e lucente e violatoreggiante la versione demo, la Walking In My Shoes che ho amato per anni è quella finita su Songs.

Walking in my shoes è in assoluto il brano che amo di più. Detto questo, la versione demo non mi fa pena, anzi, come ho già scritto, in Violator ci stava benissimo.

NeuroWalkingPensiero.

[Some Great Reward]

Vabbè dai delle canzoni... normali e prescindibili.. bu non saprei come chiamarle. Il termine "Pena" non è altro che la sintesi del divario che c'è tra la versione finale di WIMS e la sua demo... cioè nel senso che confronto alla canzone finale quella me fa pena và. Comunque chi ha arrangiato le 3 canzoni imputate (ma non sono le uniche... tra l'altro mi viene in mente proprio ora anche To Have and To Hold e di quanto sia nettamente superiore la versione finale alla versione demo) direi che non gli ha dato solamente un "semplice tocco";-)
Ribadisco la mia grande stima verso il genietto dai riccioli d'oro e ripeto che non poche demo rispecchiano perfettamente nel contenuto la versione finale (ma altrettante altre non lo rispecchiano... ho solo detto questo)

Passo e chiudo.

Sono perfettamente d'accordo. Anche se "pena" è comunque pesante...

[ematech]

ematech, ti rendi conto che dicendo cose obiettivamente false e tendenziose - per non dire idiote - come l'ultima del tuo post ("...con i tuoi avanzi lasciati hanno fatto ULTRA...") privi di credibilità il resto di quel che provi a sostenere?

ringrazio delle offese, non mi fanno ne caldo ne freddo.



certo certo come credete che gli hanno fatti i pezzi con Dave uscito dal''ospedale? 1 anno e mezzo per fare 12 pezzi?

Perchè dopo Ultra Simenon è andato via?

Dall'EPK di ULTRA:

Fletch: "Alan ha dato prova di se stesso, ha fatto grandi cose tipo lasciarci degli spunti per poter fare un nuovo disco da soli"



prima regola non essere succubi.







>
Subject: [bong] Keyboard magazine article (long, in ENGLISH)
!



Depeche Mode
Construction Time
Four years after the monumental "Songs of Faith and Devotion", the "fab
four" from Basildon come back in force with "Ultra" and without Alan
Wilder, who left in 1995. This album which could have been <enfant=E9
dans la douleur, s'av=E8re> really positif, thanks to the talent of Tim
"Bomb the Bass" Simenon who the trio confided the production. Martin
Gore and Andy Fletcher, aka fletch, explained. Jean-Henri Maisonneuve

Martin, could you give us a summary of different problems that you
encountered this last time?

MG: The first problem we faced was the loss of a member, Alan <en
l'occurrence>, who decided to part six months after the end of the last
tour - difficulties that weren't easy to resolve... So a good producer
was needed, with a good team to work with. Also Dave had his personal
problems, all the stories related in the press. Therefore we had lots of
drive <?> to finsh the album; Dave arried at one point that he could no
longer sing becasue his body was so degraded. Happily, after six months,
he became clean and sober - now, he doesn't drink at all. From this
moment, the work on the album improved. Actually<?> we started
conceiving "Ultra" in november 95, but I had nothing written beforehand.
I therefore had to compose during the recording sessions.

Did these troubling times influence "Ultra" ?

M.G. : I believe you are fatally inspired by all that's around in taking
elements from your immediate environment. Although, I don't think that
this album is marked by a depressive spirit. There is actually a
positive note. I don't think that the events from past years have had a
net influence. But we don't have enough to back u...

Andy Fletcher, alias Fletch : I don't know... it affected the group in a
certan manner, because it pushed in a determinant way to do something
good. The events obliged us to concentrate on the music itself before
Dave came back to a healthy level.
The departure of Alan was also an important factor, plus more, he had to
be replaced. It was done with the arrival of Tim Simenon and his team -
Dave Clayton on keyboards, a programmer and a Sound Engineer. I think
that they played an even larger role than Dave's problems. When it
counted <?> he sang even better, therefore the verdict is finally
positive, considering <?> all the difficulties.

For this new album, we would have thought of another possible title:
"Construction time again part 2"...

F. : Serious and pertinant question... From a certain point of vue, it
right, "Construction tiem again" came after "A broken fram" which could
probably be our worst album. Instead, this new "Ultra" comes after our
two best, "Violator" and "Songs of Faith and Devotion", therefore it's a
completely different situation. We couldn't really do worse than "A
broken frame" ! Or than "Speak and spell". It's not a good start for a
group!

There are many who are quite happy with the beginnings !

M.G. : I believe that there was some not bad confusion at the time of "A
broken frame". Vince Clarke had just quit the group, and so I had to
take the writing hand. To do so, I used songs that I wrote at age 16,
totally produced in the studio. It resulted in a mix : very pop titles
from the "Speak and spell" era and others more in line with "Construction
time again", who announced the future way of working. It's true, we find
ourself today , three, with the same "line up" of that era, but "Ultra"
is truly better than "A broken frame" (laugh) !

Could we consider Tim like the fourth member of Depeche Mode?

F. : No. But if we had to choose someone today, Tim would be absolutely
perfect. Plus, he likes particularly this idea of belonging to a
group. But Depeche Mode functions much better as a trio.
M.G. : There is already a fourth member in Depeche Mode, in Anton
Corbijn, who has a very important role : he is charged with the visual
aspect.

He collaborated with you since "Violator"...

F. : There is also Daniel Miller, who is often called the fifth member of
Depeche Mode (laughs) !

With regards to Daniel, does he stay the sympathetic boss when you need
three or four years to make an album?

F. : It's not our choice... I believe he'd like us to make an album each
year, but he understands well the creation process, and knows how it
functions. I think he is happy to have obtained "Ultra".
M.G. : The advantage to be at Mute is held in the absence of pressure on
the label's part. Daniel is a friend before all else, before being the
manager of a record label. I don't believe he is always trying to
persuade us to do what we don't really want to.

What are the new musical directions "Ultra" took ?

F. : The blues, country...
M.G. : I think our influences come from everywhere. True we can go with
what Fletch said <?>, but it's more a variety of different styles that
rejoin in a melting pot, which in the end give Depeche Mode.
F. : When Martin start to write and we chose to work with Time (one of
the reasons of the choice resides in his <ma=EEtris=e> of slow
grooves...), I listened to lots of trip hop and music with slower
rhythms. We wanted Tim for these rhythms.
M.G. : He had to bring these rhythm elements, and give them life. The
trip hop scene intrerests me lots, and the productions that are part of
it, to my senses, the best of today.

When we see the names Jaki Liebezeit and that of Tim Simenon in the team
that participated in the new album, we can have the sentiment that they
represent two extremes that Depeche Mode are trying to reconcile :
experimentations and experience for Jaki, against the technique and
youngness of Tim. What do you think?

F. : Their meeting was supposed to bring all that.
M.G. : Yes, it's true in a sense. We wanted to work with each of them,
but each time for different reasons. We were very closed to external
collaborations, but today, we can rejoice to the idea of other musicians
participating.

Could we say that "Ultra" is more experimental than the rest of your
productions? I make allusion to the little instrumental pieces...

F. : On all the albums, we tried different experiences <?> but it didn't
always succeed : we arent' like an experimental group.
M.G. : We have always had <friands> of experimentations, and for me this
facet is important since "Construction time again".
F. " What I particularly appreciate in these little instrumental pieces
is that Martin worte them in very little time. And when I listen to the
album, it doesn't seem that they were done so quickly. They sound "fresh".
M.G. : We have had to go aon perhaps a journey to package them <?>
F. : Did you here the instrumental at the end, track 12? It's an extract
of "Painkiller", the piece chosen for the B side of "Barrel of a gun".
It's too bad we didn't put it on the album...

Technically, have you changed your way of working?

M.G. : At the level of writing, nothing has changed : I compose
principally at the guitar or piano to establish the base of the piece,
then I place the lyrics, the accords... Next, the work is continued in
our studio where I set myself up at the keyboards, surrounded by synths
and computers, for <b=E2tir> of definitif. But for "Ultra", this second
phase was differente because we had a new team - a programmeur, a
musicien and a sound engineer with whom Tim has always worked.
Sometimes, we could <sepasser> three or four different events
simutaneously. We could really talk about teamwork !

What equipment did you use ?

M.G. : Dave Clayton has an incredible set of keyboards ! When he
arrived, he sometimes disappeared behind his reserves for days, and we
didn't even know he was in the studio ! I believe that everyone has a
problem in their life, and for Dave, it's that he can't stop himself from
buying machines (laugh) !

The Emulator, is it still predominant?

M.G. : No, we don't use it anymore. For the sampling, we work solely on
Akai material - only with this brand for the last album. For the
concerts, we use Emax because they are still viable, but in the studio...

We hear an analog sound on "Useless"...

M.G. : Yes, Daniel Miller is credited for this title !

What do you think of this return to analog ?

F. : If it needs to pass a radical position <?> like Vince Clark of
Erasure who only uses analog sounds - he refuses to use samples and MIDI
-, I say no ! It's like we say, more guitars ! What counts, is to use the
appropriate sounds and to profit from all the elements at our
disposition. The method we apply will be the one that corresponds to the
song, <tel but vis=E9>. It's good that certain groups use analog, but
they aren't as unique and interesting <?>.

What is the part of acoustic sounds ?

M.G. : There are real parts of <batterie>, of guitar, of steel pedal
(done by BJ Cole on "Bottom Line", NDLR), of chords. It's all of it, I
think.
F. : We sense <?> above all an acoustic sensation on the group of songs.

How do you react faced with all the artists and DJs from the techno scene
who think they invented the recipes that you discovered long before,
along with Kraftwerk and others ?

F. : In reality, it mocks me.
M.G. : It's agreeable to see that electronic music of today is popular,
but it doesn't help us in any way, because this scene is sometimes a
little too cliquish ! But undeniably, some strange happens in this time ;
from elsewhere, in France, you have huge numbers of good groups: Daft
Punk, Motorbass, or Air...

Why Plastikman, Underworld or DJ Shadow for the remixes ?

M.G. : We searched in the interesting guys that we liked, finally to
benefit from a large remix selection. But from another angle, there is
no need to lose the view that a remixer can have very different
perspectives than your own. ! The work of DJ Shadow is good, but we can't
get it out for the instant : there are too many samples. There must
first be a record label <=E9claircisses> all the problems that the use of
certain samples could cause us. We wish nonetheless to diffuse by the
next <?>. We really wanted Daft Punk as well, but they were to busy with
their album. Too bad, they were <pourtant partans...> Each time we asked
some musicians for a remix, the response was "Yes. We are fans !" It's
really sympa...

With the remixes by Underworld, Plastikman..., don't you think that
certain bad tongues could approach you to find a way to recuperate the
actual scene that works well, and to tear apart the normal<??>

F. : We have just chosen those who appreciate us, what else could we say
? How could we answer ? That we should have chosen guys we didn't like?
M.G. : It is not like we searched to try to use the most hyped artists of
the moment. Almost noone had heard of United or of One Inch Punch who
remixed "Barrel of a gun".
F. : Noone can accuse of jumping on the bandwagon.
M.G. : That's us, the bandwagon (laugh) !
F. : The remixes of our titles by others, don't date from today: Adrian
Sherwood, at the era of "Some great reward"...

You have also worked with John Fryer, Gareth Jones, Rico Conning... The
list is long. What do you think of the last Bowie, "Earthling", or does
the jungle interest you <?>, the drum'n'bass and where he integrates
these elements ?

F. : I don't know why he did it ? Inconvenient, it's because we lose
sight of the essential, that's to say the quality of the songs, whether
they be rock or drum'nbass. If they are good then who cares <?>? You
see, I detest his last album !
M.G. : Me, I'm an unconditional Bowie fan, he's someone absolutely
brilliant, of great importance. With more than one title, he is cited
come an example of success and musical prowess. But I find a little bit
sad that he is inspired by the "currant" scene.
F. : If the songs were good, it would work ! Maybe he thinks he's still
underground.
M.G. : Don't forget that Bowie is fifty !
F. : He now lives in Switzerland. It was better that he was connect with
Berlin.

The next singles after "Barrel of a gun" ?

M.G. : The second will be "It's no good".
F. : The third is still in our spirits, it might be "Useless", or "Home",
or "Insight"...
M.G. " No way of bringing them all out as singles, we don't want a career
like Michael of Janet Jackson !

The scene ?

M.G. : The last tour lasted too long, three years between the studio and
the tour ! This time we decided to profit from the fact that we finished
an album without need to leave just after. We'll play next year,
surely. It will be easier and less stressful. Plus, I have already
written three titles for a solo album, bu it's long and annoying to be in
the studio ! For the moment, we will profit from the free time.

====== end of article ====

[Freestate]

ma ancora insisti con questa favola? Impara a scrivere in italiano piuttosto... mamma mia, è proprio vero che la madre degli imbecilli è sempre incinta...

[saturnz70]

ringrazio delle offese non mi fanno ne caldo ne freddo.

A parte che non si tratta di offese, ma solo di onesti rilievi, forse un pochino invece dovresti rifletterci sopra.
Se continui con le tue personali convinzioni non puoi non aspettarti che qualcuno ti faccia notare che sei completamente fuori strada...
Magari te l'hanno fatto notare in maniera troppo diretta nella forma, ma, nella sostanza, ci siamo.
Oppure preferisci che ti si dia ragione come ai folli?

[Freestate]

ma quali offese... questo idiota arriva qui, posta i suoi deliri guardandosi bene dal rispondere a domande precise, e ha addirittura il coraggio di dire che viene offeso. Un pagliaccio.

[ematech]

ma quali offese... questo idiota arriva qui, posta i suoi deliri guardandosi bene dal rispondere a domande precise, e ha addirittura il coraggio di dire che viene offeso. Un pagliaccio.

sei troppo nervoso, il forum è fatto per discutere.


ti consiglio di leggere i libri

Pierre Lévy "l'intelligenza collettiva"
Mario Costa "Il sublime tecnologico, 1990, Edisud, Salerno."


almeno ti calmi

[Freestate]

il forum è fatto per discutere.

ecco, allora impara a rispondere alle domande che molti utenti ti hanno rivolto dopo le tue scemenze invece di citare libri a casaccio...

[iamyou]

punti di vista diversi e rispettabili.....
ma capolavori come leave in silence see you
e my secret garden la dicevano lunga già allora
sulla stoffa di quel biondino diciottenne,
e quel talento sarebbe comunque esploso,
alan o non alan, non lo dico io, lo dice la storia....

Non sono state See you (capolavoro?!?!), my secret garden e leave in silence a consacrare il biondino, dato che a Broken frame ebbe un successo piuttosto tiepidino. La storia al contrario dice che il suo talento è definitivamente esploso con l'aiuto di Alan, e cmq senza ETS, di cui tutti sappiamo che dobbiamo proprio a Wilder e Flood la versione definitiva, i DM oggi non sarebbero così famosi...

[iamyou]

Alan con i tuoi avanzi lasciati hanno fatto ULTRA.

Bugia io so che era una voce falsa, diffusa malignamente e che tuttora crea equivoci. Io stesso sono stato convinto di questo fatto per un paio di anni